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The deportation of the Trump administration to citizens with legal right in the United States in the United States, and the challenge of federal law and the campaign against universities has shocked many.
But historian Stephen Han, author of “Illiberal America: A History”, says Illiberalism is part of American traditions.
I started asking whether President Trump was a deviation or part of a pattern.
Stephen Han: Well, it is an important question and the answer alike. He told us that he would do all this and we were warned. And I think it would be very difficult to find an example of the President of the United States before Trump, who acted this way, he had the aspirations and policies he had. But there is a long history of what I call non -liberal.
Matt Frry: We want to go into some historical examples in one minute, but I first wonder if you think that the speed that things happen is not only the mentality of this president, but also the way he did so. So he does not bother to go to Congress. Is it like ideas behind this method?
Stephen Han: When Trump was elected in 2016, he did not expect to win. He was really not ready to take office and judgment. This time it is very different. For one reason, the Project 2025 was designed. There was a very clear idea among people to the right of what they wanted to do, with the realization that this was a unique and important opportunity, and they wanted to make sure to move forward as soon as possible. He came to his position with hundreds of executive orders that are already awaiting signing. And I think part of the ambition is to do many things so quickly that you will face great difficulty even in knowing what should be fighting first. Obviously, you can file a lawsuit, but if he does not pay attention to what the courts say, well, very much.
Matt Frry: I wonder whether Donald Trump, like Andrew Jackson in front of him, is essentially weak in the heart of the American constitutional system, which is whether you do not respect laws, customs and institutions, well, there are not many terrible things that opponents can do about it.
Stephen Han: It tests the limits of what may be acceptable. I think he is provocative because he hopes to have a real confrontation that may allow him to declare a state of national emergency and then the judgment is truly as Autocrat.
“I think he is provocative because he hopes to have a real confrontation that might allow him to declare a state of national emergency and then the judgment is truly as if he was followers.”
Stephen Han
Matt Frry: Do you really think that this is what he wants to do, is this part of his plan?
Stephen Han: I think, especially if he sees the escalation of the opposition, I believe, I mean, look, it raises a confrontation with the courts. My fear is that if mobilization grows, political mobilization against it, I am afraid to announce the state of national emergency. People speak, well, as you know, mid -time elections. I am not sure that we will get it.
Matt Frry: truly?
Stephen Han: I am sure that we will not own them, but I feel that it is in this event, even in advance, but in the event that Republicans may lose control of Congress, I think he will search for an opportunity. Look, he was thinking about this in the relationship with the 2020 elections. I don’t think he will consider twice in declaring the state of national emergency and whether this means, as you know, effectively suspending Congress or exposing greater powers to itself and declaring customary rulings effectively.
Matt Frry: So, if you are a depressed liberal hiding behind the sofa and your head in your hands and you are worried about the future of the Republic, where does hope come from?
Stephen Han: I think we must realize that it is in many ways, the liberalism itself has exhausted. We need to resist day by day. We need to protest. We need to protect vulnerable people who will undergo repression and punishment that are difficult for them to defend.
“I think we must realize that it is in many ways, liberalism has exhausted itself.”
Stephen Han
Matt Frry: Does this mean, do you think that non -liberal America is here to remain, even if Donald Trump is voted, or has a wall in the upcoming renewal elections, or the Republicans are voted outside his position in the presidential elections?
Stephen Han: Any idea that if you get rid of Trump, that if he was defeated, then this is in one way or another we will return to normal life, which I think was the way he was received in 2017. Oh my God, how did this happen? Well, as you know, let’s withdraw these weeds and everything will be fine, it is a big mistake.
Matt Frry: Within 50 years, will America remain democratic? yes or no?
Stephen Han: I don’t know.
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